LO v. CE – Post Trial Update

As far as I can tell, three types of people are reading this post:

1.) Members of the Clayton Echard Personality Cult;

2.) Normal folks who are interested in law/lawsuits/legal procedure (and maybe reality TV); and

3.) Judge Mata & Her Dad (allegedly, but hopefully not).

This post is ONLY for folks in Category #2. All others can stop reading now. These comments are not for you.

Now. let’s get into it — about 24 hours ago the court issued a ruling that was 99% favorable to Clayton (the judge did not vacate the order of protection, so that’s the only issue Clayton lost). Overall, and that one point aside, the post-trial decision gave Clayton pretty much every single thing he wanted….and arguably more.

Is this a victory for Clayton? Has justice been served? Will Laura end up in jail? Am I embarrassed Woodnick kicked my ass in court?

Fully understanding the answers to those questions begins with a few important points.

First, Clayton has won a battle, but the war is not even close to over.

Second, I’ve been down this road MANY times in the past, and I can tell you — it ain’t over until it’s over. Small victories (even huge ones) mean nothing if they are wrong and subject to reversal. If you were told you won the lottery and a few months later you were informed the ticket was fake and all the money was taken back, would you still feel like a winner?

Third, at the end of the day, the most important question that matters beyond all else is this — was the judge’s decision correct? If the answer is NO, Clayton’s victory is a hollow and temporary one. And at this point, that question remains wide open.

So how are Laura and I feeling? Where do we go from here? I’m going to share some thoughts on both the past and the future. But before we get to that, I have to remind everyone this is not my first rodeo. 100% of my legal practice is litigation, and I normally deal with cases a LOT bigger and more complicated than LO v. CE. That is NOT bragging or boasting. As Shakespeare said: “What’s past is prologue.” If you want to understand the future, you need to consider the past and lessons learned from it.

For me, the most analogous past experience is my 5-year battle in Sarah Jones v. TheDirty.com.  I mentioned this case before, but to summarize — this was a defamation case that started in federal court in 2009. Just like LO v. CE, the trial judge in Jones was exceptionally hostile to me, my client, and my legal arguments. He hated us, right from the start. The judge insulted me several pre-trial rulings, claiming my legal arguments were completely frivolous. He basically accused me of lying about the law. He ruled against me over and over and over again. Sound familiar? Basically, just like Judge Mata, the trial judge in Jones ruled in favor of the plaintiff 100% of the time.

Due to the legal issues involved, Jones was BIG news at the time. Every national network carried stories about the case. Seee.g.:


The case was tried to a jury, twice. The first jury hung, and the second jury found in favor of the plaintiff and awarded $338,000 in damages. When that happened, it was basically the exact same thing that happened this week in LO v. CE. The plaintiff celebrated and cried about finally getting “justice”. She held press conferences. Her lawyer (no longer licensed) posted a celebration video sitting in front of an American flag, bloviating about how great our justice system was (sadly, that video was later removed so I can’t share it).

Here’s a fun little interview that happened about 15 minutes after we got the jury’s verdict. Please note how happy/excited Clayton the plaintiff was. Look familiar?

But like I always say — it’s not over until it’s over. In Jones, as soon as we got the jury’s verdict, my client and I did not cry over our defeat. We did not weep after getting our asses kicked.

On the contrary – we hugged, high-fived, and then got the hell out of Kentucky. Believe it or not, after we lost we were OVERJOYED that we were done with a judge who was, sadly, corrupt, dishonest, or both. That judge was never going to do the right thing, and getting a jury verdict (even an adverse one) meant we could finally move the case out of that judge’s court and up to the Court of Appeals. Losing the second trial was honestly one of our best days….because it cleared the way to victory.

Once we got to the Court of Appeals, the victory was swift and decisive. The Court of Appeals smacked down every aspect of the trial judge’s decision, confirming that I was NOT misstating the law. The trial judge was simply an unethical activist who believed his personal views were more important that the rule of law. His bosses at the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with every word I said, resulting in a complete reversal of the judgment against my client.

Here’s a video after we won the appeal. How sad do I look/sound here? And NOTE — the lawyer speaking here on behalf of the plaintiff is NOT the guy who later lost his license. This younger guy is a sub who took over once the main guy lost his license.

As explained in this CBS News article, Jones was was NOT the only time I litigated and won this same issue. In fact, I’d fought and won dozens of similar cases across the country:

“It opens the floodgates,” said Richie’s Phoenix-area lawyer, David Gingras, who has successfully argued dozens of similar cases across the country. “It would basically destroy the ability of websites like Facebook that allow users to post comments. … Once you strip away their immunity, once you make it conditional, you open the door to allow them to get sued.”


Despite what she told the news media, the plaintiff in Jones did NOT take her case to the U.S. Supreme Court (which was probably the part that I regret the most – it would have been a dream to argue that case before SCOTUS).

Alright, so what’s the point of all this? The answer should be obvious — just because Clayton got a lone judge to agree with his claims does NOT mean that ruling will withstand appeal. And here’s a serious side question for all you Woodnick Worshippers — has Gregg ever handled an appeal? I can’t find any evidence that he’s ever argued even a single appeal, much less that’s he’s ever prevailed in one. If you can point me to any prior appellate work he’s done, I’d love to see it.

Now, as for this week’s decision, here are my initial thoughts/comments:

  • We need to hold a competition for the person who spots the most factual errors in this ruling (let’s not even include typos).
  • Does anyone else find it ironic that the VERY FIRST finding in the ruling is completely wrong: “Laura Owens (“Petitioner”) filed a pro per Petition to Establish Paternity …. on May 20, 2023.” SERIOUSLY? Does that mean the judge has committed PERJURY? FRAUD!?! Should the judge go immediately to prison? NO, the judge simply misspoke and got the date wrong. In a case with so many moving parts, this is understandable, and contrary to what the insane clown JFC posse believes, PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE MISTAKES. This is not a crime, even in the Wild West State of Arizona.
  • I personally can’t even count the number of factual errors in the ruling. There are just so many, it’s crazy.
  • In terms of our ability to win on appeal, one of the finest aspects of this ruling is this nugget: “Here, the Court finds Petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history.” WOW! Such a powerful statement! And the evidence received at trial to support that finding is………..wait for it…….keep waiting………keep waiting…..THAT’S RIGHT Absolutely freaking NOTHING!
  • That single error virtually guarantees the ruling will not stand on appeal. And guess what that means? Yup – after the case is remanded for further proceedings, Judge Mata will be removed from the case. That comes straight from Family Law Rule 6(f) which provides for removal of the old judge after a case is remanded.
  • Judge Mata has only been a judge for a few years, and so far, her track record is…..ummm…..not good. Here’s a recent case where a decision of hers was tossed out and remanded after she (wait for it) ignored a key procedural rule: https://casetext.com/case/in-re-spahr-1
  • There is other anecdotal evidence to suggest Judge Mata has a history of doing things which would normally result in a mistrial in any normal civil context. For example, according to her reviews on TheRobingRoom.com (where she currently has a rating of TWO stars out of TEN), one former litigant claims the judge USED GOOGLE to research an aspect of the case dealing with snake behavior. Folks, I should not have to explain this, but a judge is NOT ALLOWED TO USE GOOGLE TO DECIDE MATERIAL FACTS IN A CASE. Obviously we have no way of knowing if this allegation is true (it could be a lie posted by a disgruntled litigant), but if the story is true……well, I am going to bite my tongue and just leave that out there.
  • Greg Gillespie has been emailing me, suggesting he’s going to sue Laura. If you’re reading this Greg, allow me to remind you — BRO, YOU ALREADY SUED HER (with Master Woodnick representing you)….AND YOU LOST. YOU CAN’T SUE LAURA FOR A CLAIM THAT YOU ALREADY LOST.
  • About 12 hours before Judge Mata’s ruling was issued, I sent an email to the court explaining that we believed there may be grounds to remove Judge Mata from the case “for cause”. Basically, there is a rule that allows a party to file a notice saying they have reason to believe a judge is either “biased” or “unfair”. In this instance, the concern was based on stories posted on social media that claimed Judge Mata’s father attended the trial, and afterwards he spoke to members of Clayton’s Cult. According to at least one person, the judge’s father made statements implying that Judge Mata shared information about the case with him, including a suggesting she was going to make adverse rulings BEFORE the trial began. Folks, if that story is true (and at the moment, we cannot confirm it either way), that would be one of the most outrageous acts of judicial misconduct imaginable. But because I am a reasonable person, I did not believe it was fair to file a Notice of Change of Judge (which would have gone to Judge Mata’s boss for decision) without first asking Judge Mata to explain whether the allegations were true.  Rather than doing so, Judge Mata’s clerk responded by saying the judge “would prefer a motion”, rather than simply answering my questions privately.  Based on that reply from the clerk, I began drafting the notice to remove Judge Mata, but (as expected) she issued her decision literally hours before the notice could be completed.
  • If I wanted, and if I believed the facts and the law supported it, I could still file a notice asking Judge Mata’s boss (the presiding judge) to remove her from the case. Because this phase of the case is basically 99% done (the only thing left is for Mata to determine the amount of Clayton’s fees), I am not sure that’s going to be necessary. As noted above, assuming the Court of Appeals reverses and remands ANY aspect of this week’s ruling, we will automatically get a new judge. Thus, I’m not sure there’s a lot of value in raising this issue now.

OK, that’s a lot of words and maybe it’s not the part most people case about….so I will wrap up with a couple comments on the two things I bet most people want to know:

1.) How is Laura feeling, and

2.) Do I still believe her story?

As for Point 1, what can I say — Laura isn’t happy. She’s shocked. She honestly doesn’t understand how the court got this SO wrong. She feels betrayed by Judge Mata and by the court system as a whole.

I keep reminding her of a couple things. First, you have to accept our courts are not perfect. It is a proven fact that innocent people are sometimes convicted and sent to death row. That happens, and it’s not even a rare thing. I guess the only explanation I can offer is that courts are comprised of human beings, and humans are very, very imperfect creatures. Yes, there are dirty, corrupt, self-serving folks all around us. There are also many good people. At the end of the day, while this is cold comfort to be sure, Laura needs to accept that this ruling does not define her. She says the judge got this 100% wrong, and she intends to continue fighting this as long as it takes.

As for Point 2, yes — after all of this, I am still 100% on Laura’s side. I believe she was pregnant, and I believe the evidence shows she had a miscarriage that happened without her knowing it.

But even if I give Clayton all benefit of the doubt and accept his view of what happened, I am still 1000000% certain the court’s decision was still wrong. Laura tried to drop this case as soon as she reasonably could. Regardless of WHY she made that decision, the fact remains Clayton could have simply let the case get dismissed, and he would never have incurred a penny of fees. If Clayton believes Laura lied about being pregnant, he could have simply sued her in normal civil court for defamation, or whatever. But he chose not to do this, presumably because convincing a jury of 12 neutral people to rule against Laura is a lot harder than convincing one judge with a father who, apparently, is a fan of one side.

So, for now, no further comments from me about this. I’m on vacation with my family, and I intend to enjoy the rest of the trip. I took a break from my holiday to share these comments, but that’s it. Back to family time now.

Moving forward, I will not be posting anything further about this case….at least until the opening brief is filed in the Court of Appeals. My guess is that will happen sometime later this fall…..perhaps in the October/November time frame. NO, that doesn’t mean zero Tweets….if something comes up, I reserve the right to comment on it. But otherwise, just remember — this case is not over. You think you know the final outcome, but you don’t. All you have is ONE decision from ONE judge who appears to have made up her mind six months ago….and that same judge has recently been reversed by the Court of Appeals, so who knows….that may just happen again.

Until then….thanks for all the passionate interest in the case. I’m happy to answer individual questions via email, but NOT from JFC Cult members. All others are welcome to ask whatever you like.

Posted (with permission) from Deck 15, poolside, Norwegian Getaway, Rome, Italy, June 19, 2024.

This Post Has 64 Comments

  1. Rebecca

    I have a couple of questions.

    1. Can appeal be denied? If so, what does that mean? Is there a limit to how many times you can attempt to appeal?

    2. If the appeal goes through and does get denied, what happens then? Is there further action that can be taken or is it “the war” being lost at that point?

    3. What is the process for determining if Judge Mata acted improperly?

    4. IF (I know it’s a big “if”) Laura is investigated by the county, how would that affect an appeals case, if at all? If she was investigated AND charged, does that also affect an appeal?

    5. This question isn’t actually about the appeal but were you aware she was going to mention Los Angeles at trial?

    Appreciate your willingness to engage!

  2. Gingras JR

    No one cares you are just trying to waste Laura’s money by pretending you’ll win.

  3. Jane dont

    You are an idiot. Get in line she will file false charges on you now too. Your client is a liar and needs to be prosecuted to tye fullest extent of the law. For each purgery and false document she is facing 5 yrs plus at a minimum and since she chose to continue to lie, she should face a minimum 5 yrs and the world will email the Maricopa Prosecutors office (during an election year) to prosecute this liar to the fullest extent! AND you TO THE ARIZONA BAR ASSOCIATION for your outlandish baseball hand gestures to your client to further lie! Disghusting both of you.

  4. Erin

    If I wasn’t convinced before, I am now! Neither one of you deal in reality. And you cannot have a meaningful in reality conversation with someone like this. Laura needs to focus on her mental health and accept what she did was WRONG. You both play dirty.

  5. Nathan

    “The Court finds Petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history.”
    Why are you saying there is zero evidence for this presented at trial?
    I saw the trial. There was.

  6. Lying Liar Who Lies

    All I can hear when I read this is the snake chorus background music playing lmao

  7. Patricia Husbands

    I believe everyone is entitled to their day in court. I also feel a client should get what they paid for; in this case did you do your level best Mr. Gingras? If the answer is yes, great! Having lost is LO willing to throw good money after bad? LO- please PLEASE get some help! I would love an evaluation done by Shannon Curry. All the besy’n

  8. Concerned Citizen

    Do you want to get disbarred or for an appeals court to laugh in your face as your try to appeal? Lobbing serious accusations against a judge because you didn’t like the ruling feels like you want your client to go after you for legal malpractice. Why do this otherwise?

  9. Mata Mom

    If y’all can’t bring a REAL sonogram/US from a REAL planned parenthood in LA, you’re done. No judge will take some photoshopped work. They will want it DIRECTLY from planned parenthood. That is the ONLY THING that can even give you any hope of overturning this. But, too bad PP was closed that day and she never went and there is no US. You’ve either been severely duped, or you know she is lying and don’t care. Either way, you put the LEWD in DELUDED.

    1. JusticeForAllVictims

      He wants to be famous and thinks he’s the next Marty Singer (see embarrassing email to Dave). I can’t believe this is the hill he chose to let his legal career die on but it is entertaining to watch. LO will come after him next.

      1. JenT

        Someday Woodnick will write a blogpost of the attorney he worked against who got disbarred… it will come full circle. Except Woodnick will be telling the truth!

  10. Maricopa County Resident

    Looking forward to reading your blog after the ability to to appeal is denied. Better start sharpening your hand signal skills for the purgury and evidence tampering trial.

  11. Ivy

    The fact that she STILL isn’t interested in dropping this proves the opposition’s case. To borrow the court’s language and logic, a REASONABLE person would take the L and say “geez I learned an expensive lesson that next time I need to get prenatal care before suing people.” (She wasn’t pregnant but for argument’s sake). The fact that she won’t drop this proves she is only interested in terrorizing these men.

    And for the one BILLIONTH time, women don’t have miscarriages without knowing it. You could confuse it for a heavy period at 4-6w MAYBE a week or two beyond but NEVER 11w as she would have been on July 23, and certainly not beyond that. Honestly this is getting so exhausting. Hey remember that time you told us you’d drop her immediately if she lied? And that you’d be the first one to say lock her up if she lied in her affidavit?

  12. Rob

    Dude, just stop. Please. It’s getting silly at this point. Every one of these blogs has been moving the goal post further or explaining why the things you said weren’t actually the things you said. And here you are, explaining why hand signals were not hand signals and moving the goal post again, assuring of victory even though you keep losing. You keep promising not to write, but then you do. The judge thing clearly won’t work out for you (her father is a private citizen going to a public event, nothingburger), so focus on prepping LO for her fight against the higher courts and the obvious oncoming lawsuit for the men whose lives she ruined… now that they have confirmation she lied in writing from the courts, they’ll be rightfully coming for you.

  13. Gis

    I honestly didn’t get past your question about appeals by Woodnick usually a lawyer appeals when they lose so if you can’t find any, that should answer your question right? Aren’t you supposed to be on vacation? Do you think that trying to siphoning more money out of Laura is ethical you will only get to appeal if there is merit for the appeal good luck with that. You lost your client lost because of the fact that she lied repeatedly because she wasted resources just like you did and I’m sure someone is going to report you for trying to intimidate a witness..

    1. David Gingras

      I give this comment the award for worst logic.

      You think Woodnick’s lack of appellate experience is because he wins so much?

      If that was true, and if Woodnick won all the time, don’t you think the losing party would appeal (as I plan to do), in which case Woodnick would have a clear record of also winning on appeal?

      You guys are really unbelievable. Never seen anything like this cult. And there is no other term that fits. It’s a cult.

      1. Come on now

        Here is a an honest question. Why do you believe Laura? So far it’s smoke and mirrors and a lot of hand signals. Until you can present a case that logically leans toward your client, the rest of the world will believe Clayton. If everyone that believes Clayton is in a “cult” as you keep stating then you are the only sane person on this earth. The reality is you are drinking the kool aid and everyone is in the mainstream. The “Laura Cult” is obviously a very dangerous. Get out while you can. Be a lawyer not a blogger.

      2. cya

        “So, for now, no further comments from me about this…Back to family time now.”
        Sure, Jan.

      3. YoUDoinGToMuch

        Calm your tits dingus and just tell her to pay what she owes! LET THIS BE OVER!

      4. Pam

        I am a lawyer who has tried many cases. I’m a trial lawyer like Woodnick. When a case is appealed by either side, we hire an appellate lawyer. You know damn well there are many trial lawyers that don’t do appellate work and that there are many lawyers that don’t do trials and that specialize in appeals. The standard here was proving paternity by DNA evidence and there wasn’t any. Whatever you did in this other case you described has absolutely nothing to do with THIS case. To try and take down a sitting judge because you don’t like her ruling is beyond anything I’ve seen in decades of practice. You have no evidence that her dad influenced her decision. He probably sat near Clayton supporters because everyone there besides Laura’s mom was a Clayton supporter. Laura lied about PP and she altered medical records. All she needs to do is produce a real ultrasound. How did she know she was having a twin boy and girl with no ultrasound. Impossible unless she was lying about that too. The other two men she victimized – wasn’t there evidence about that in Woodnick’s pretrial brief and exhibits. Either way that was to support a referral to the DA – not the award of attorney’s fees. Please get Laura help and stop taking her money. She knows she altered records and lied. She knows the body can’t absorb twin fetuses at 24 weeks when she testified under oath at the OOP hearing that she was 100% pregnant. You know all this too. How could she be shocked? Please I beg you get her help.

        1. David Gingras

          I’m always happy to see comments from other lawyers, but these remarks contain arguments I don’t believe a real lawyer would make. If you are a real lawyer, please feel free to email me directly and I’m happy to explain the major mistakes in what you’ve said here.

          1. Immaculate_BJ

            I find it hilarious that of all the comments, THIS is the one you respond to. Behind all the ego and false bravado, you scream tiny d1ck energy. You are extremely thin skinned, especially when people bring up the fact that Woodnick is a far better lawyer than yourself. And why are you using a 20 year old picture of yourself? You are old and fat now. Just goes to show that you don’t live in reality.

          2. david the groomer

            the fact that her dad, who is retired may or may not have come to the overflow room to watch his daughter in trial has nothing do with laura’s admitted fraud. the fact that you are going to make her elderly dad feel guilty for watching this trial is SICK. i feel so bad for him. Since you moved from dating 16 year olds to dating older women, what if someone did this to your elderly wife? absolutely sick. i’m so glad this ruined your cheapo cruise vacation with your imaginary friends.

          3. Pam

            What’s your email Gingras? Yes I’m not a liar like Laura. I’m a real lawyer who is board certified in trial advocacy through the NBTA, AV rated, spoken at many seminars, ranked as one of the top attorneys in my state and obtained multi-million dollar verdicts. I don’t need lessons from a sleazy lawyer like you. But I’d be happy to send you an email so you can see that some of us tell the truth and when I said I’m a lawyer I meant it.

      5. Ummm... what??

        Thought you weren’t going to say anything more! This is wild!

        1. mememe


          1. Mar

            mememe is ME, and for some reason the laughing till I cry emoji came up as ???? cause I’m a boomer who disbelieves that Judge Mata rumour.

  14. Trippy

    Laura stated under oath in November that she seen doctor higley last friday and she absolutely 100 percent 24weeks pregnant. That gingras is PERJURY which proves for a fact that laura is an actual LIAR which she admitted on JUNE 10th it was minor thing
    Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus is a Latin maxim meaning “false in one thing, false in everything.

    1. cya

      I may have committed some *light* treason 😉

  15. HearMeowt

    You wrote this for dumb people, who won’t understand just how much you’re leaving out.

    I would love to see Laura continue to get RKO’d in court as she continues to lie and change her story again and again. The evidence is overwhelming.

    This trial will not define her, but the past is 10 years of behavior is now out there for everyone to see, and she is not going to change. The longer it goes, the more google hits will accumulate, and she will never be able to pull this scam again.

  16. You’re SO cringe

    Blah blah blah, TLDR…..you lost, you are predatory in continuing to take money from someone who needs mental health treatment, and there is literally not one person who has watched and read all of this who believes any of it. But go on and file all the long winded unnecessary things you wish, we will all still be here for round 2, making sure all the lies are front and center. It’s shameful what you’re doing, and one day Laura will see that and turn on you as well.

    1. TrishinTn

      I completely agree with your statement! LO needs serious mental help! And Gringas will continue to take her money! When she concedes only then can she begin her journey to mental health. He is SO cringe! Isn’t there 1 REASONABLE person that surrounds LO, enabling her delusions to say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH??

  17. Mia

    You are embarrassing yourself. Instead of disputing the actual evidence in the case (LIKE your client acknowledging several instances of committing medical fraud, perjuring herself multiple times, and deliberately refusing to cooperate with the discovery by refusing to disclose the PP in LA), instead your sorry ass complains and whines about Judge Mata’s father (maybe) being there, or the wrong dates in Judge Mata’s ruling. I come from a family of lawyers, and your behavior is truly shameful. Should have taken the route of her other 13-plus lawyers…but then again, you probably just want to cash that Owen’s family paycheck. Whatever helps you sleep at night, David.

  18. It's like Trump if he could blog

    If only your client didn’t persist in claiming that a Planned Parenthood sonogram still exists.
    It’s clear to anyone she could have instantly won if it was ever handed over. But it wasn’t, because it doesn’t exist, because she lied.

    For someone who supposedly wants the world to know the truth and wants to be vindicated in court, there was a very curious lack of her, and by extension, you, doing the super obvious thing to make that happen.

    I read on the internet that no one knows who you are in AZ family court. Like you’re just some ambulance chaser with a 1 man shop and no reputation. I cant confirm it but you can just say things. Wonder what your star rating is

  19. Jill

    Do you not find it telling that not one person believes Laura or is on her side? How many times do you see everyone on the same side of a situation ? People love to pick the side of the underdog and go against the grain, yet every single person is on Clayton’s side. Or shall I say, against Laura. It’s not because we all love Clayton. In fact, it’s difficult to take his side and not the side of a female accuser but there are too many holes and too many changing stories. Her story is not credible and she will continue to piss off women who have miscarried by sharing her narrative. How can Laura be shocked by the judges decision yet every lawyer who watches the trial predicted this outcome. I truly hope you move on from this and I will find it so unethical if you double down and appeal this case. To me that is the ultimate sign of a money grab

  20. Kevin

    You might get it thrown out and get a new judge, but ethically you’re on the wrong side. I know, that doesn’t matter to you. What matters is being able to afford a cruise to Europe and being able to brag about it. That’s why people hate lawyers. Anyway, I hope Laura and her family feel like you earned your vacation.

  21. David

    I honestly did not think it was possible for anyone to top Mount Ineptitude faster than Elaine Bredehoft, but congratulations Mr. Gingras you have achieved it. Your really bad examination of your own client, your choice of “expert” witness (who can now truly enjoy his retirement since no one will ever hire him again as an “expert”), the hand signals (for which I sincerely hope some sanctions are coming your way), the actual gall you had to call 9-1-1 on Mike before the trial started, and then all the pre-trial and now post-trial rants, you have officially cemented yourself in the annals of attorneys who are just bad at their jobs.

    You left out of your analysis of the decision that paternity is ONLY presumed when there is DNA evidence; since there was NO DNA evidence provided by Laura, then there is NO presumption of paternity. This is the most important thing – the rest is all just showing Laura perjured herself (changing her story on the day of trial to a Planned Parenthood in LA), ignoring all the Court’s ORDERS to provide her actual medical information (which it seems wasn’t even provided to her “expert”), and threatening witnesses (telling Clayton she would sue if if he didn’t drop the case, you calling 9-1-1 on Mike just to try to prevent him from testifying)

    I do hope Laura gets the help she so obviously needs. She can now “let this go” as you have implored both of them to do.

  22. Insanity

    You do know that the 3 cases that is referenced is most likely the paternity, the order of protection and the injunction case. So for this comment…….. “In terms of our ability to win on appeal, one of the finest aspects of this ruling is this nugget: “Here, the Court finds Petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history.” WOW! Such a powerful statement indeed considering Laura lied in each and every one of them cases.
    Also Greg didn’t lose because Laura didn’t win, it was dismissed.
    I have 1 question for you, If Laura’s “pregnant belly” was real that how the hell does she have a flat tummy 3 days before the 19th of September’s “pregnant belly video” and then back to completely flat again a couple of days after the 19th video while doing her horse jumping? Having been pregnant twice I really wish that happened in real life, especially when you can get comfortable.
    Face she is full of it and is just a compulsive lier who needs serious help

  23. Disbarment Looks Good on You

    You should be disbarred for witness intimidation. Calling 911 on Mike was such a cowardly move, shame on you!

  24. Trent

    I have always loved reading your rants. I remember the dirty days. Those were some great days. Continue the great fight.

  25. Karen

    Seriously, what happened to your last blog? “SO, KIDS — stop fighting. You don’t have to kiss and make up, but Jesus — can’t you just let this go? “

    1. Karen

      PS #2 category here….have never watched a bachelor episode…never heard of CE. But have to admit there is soooooo much of LO claims that make zero sense.. Just that moon bump alone just doesn’t add up to any of the timing she’s claiming. . She showed off a huge belly more than once….and it hasn’t been explained. I think a jury would definitely come to same conclusions…it makes no sense. Also you keep claiming all she needed to show is that she reasonably thought she was pregnant. But she needed to also reasonably show CE was also the father and she couldn’t do that and didn’t do that. Most people doubt she was even pregnant let alone take that next leap and consider CE was the father if she was. Given she performed oral sex on a first date….that could easily lead others to reasonably believe she has had multiple partners. It’s not a moral judgement …it’s just an example that it’s likely she was sexually actively with many partners. . Let’s face it….she started litigation too prematurely, before she had a doctor even examine her.

  26. Jill C

    I believe LO is a monster. I was in tears hearing MM’s recount of her torment on Megan’s livestream today. I believe you are a monster as well for seemingly trying to intimidate and call 911 on him. Please allow these men some peace in their lives and stop this abuse. I can only assume the way you’re behaving is in hopes of gaining fame and therefore a major role the documentary? Why else would you behave in such a way?

  27. Tom Bant

    I have said many other things in other comments, so I’ll keep it simply. The fact that she was “shocked” is terrifying, it shows a complete lack of self awareness and any emotional maturity. Even if she believes she is 100% correct, she had to have an inkling that things were leaning away from her.

  28. paul sexton

    A growing percentage of this audience is convinced that a person is suffering as a vulnerable adult and she is being taken advantage of by a dishonest lawyer.

    Other lawyers saw the truth and dropped the case.

    No reasonable person seems to believe Doe’s version of events.

    Admits lying about many things, only coming up with explanations after being caught.

    Absent lies, people would not be interested. By continuing to defend lies people have become absolutely disgusted by conduct.

    Substituting the name of the facility on the ultrasound is deception.

    If privacy was motive then just remove name, not add one.

    Continuing to take money from a vulnerable adult lacks integrity.

    Could be close to easily convince medical professionals of active mental illness shown by this history, if so inclined to.

    And possibly has shown ability to adapt self to evolving situation,

    See the history of behavior, which is similar in certain ways to that of a seriously disturbed person. A doctor having that as a basis for building on very powerful serious diagnosis of possible mental illness, so then is a vulnerable adult.

    You are intelligent enough to see all of this. But you ignore it and allow a disturbed person not in control of self to go into court and ruin her life forever, instead of doing your job and advising her as your code of ethics requires.

    You are likely to see Jane Doe target you next with a very colorable complaint.

  29. Anonymous

    Ugh. I have to rethink what to write..I was pretty neutral here to be honest until this afternoon when I read your clients blog post. That was infuriating. Trying to take so many people down when you are not getting your way is NOT how you win things. It makes you look worse.

  30. Gingras has a micro penis

    I think it’s funny you’re so caught up with dates. When during the trial you were so flummoxed with them, Nov 2nd anyone?
    Also, when you say this Here, the Court finds Petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history.” WOW! Such a powerful statement indeed considering Laura lied in each and every one of them cases. — Sir, there are videos with your client JD wearing a fake moon bump ????????for everyone to see. That’s right, not once, TWICE.

    1. Gingras had a micro penis

      Oh I forgot, all the best!

  31. cya

    “the fact remains Clayton could have simply let the case get dismissed, and he would never have incurred a penny of fees” It’s not just about the fees, Clayton is a public figure and he lost INCOME because of your client. And he would continue to if he allowed her to continue to destroy his reputation. Maybe you don’t know this, but your client contacted an entity that was going to pay Clayton a decent amount for an in-person speaking engagement. She lied to them that he was a “deadbeat dad” and so they cancelled the gig. She then went to the Sun and she went to Bachelor subreddits to share a false victim narrative, furthering a reputation smear (people sided w/ her at first, but the more she commented the more red flags waved.)
    This is all on her. And I feel sad for her, as she is clearly an unwell person that needs medical and mental help. She does NOT need enablers like yourself and her mother that feed into her delusions.
    A reasonable pregnant woman would accept that a man can’t be shamed into a relationship w/ her, and would not send them a dating contract w/ termination negotiations. A reasonable pregnant woman would not go to the public with her “story”, she’d deal w/ it privately. A reasonable pregnant woman would decide if she is willing to go through w/ the pregnancy ALONE since the “father” has made it clear he wants no part of it. And if she decided she wanted child support, she would wait until the baby (or twins–remind me how she knew it was twins?) arrived, and *then* file the paternity suit. There was absolutely no reason for her to send Clayton over 500 texts and emails, no reason to file an extremely pre-mature paternity suit, and no reason to LIE about seeing doctors she actually didn’t see other than to keep Clayton in some kind of sick relationship w/ her. None. You and your expert witness are scumbags for encouraging and exploiting this very sick client for money. It’s really really sick.

  32. Justice

    Now we hear someone anonymously called CPS the day after Mike agreed to testify. I hope in all the next cases all phone records and emails from any phone/computer she been using are pulled. None of these records lie. Locations can be determined on where she was on the dates she went to planned parenthood. Also all the horse comps she went to before and after the courts cases where she had a huge belly. Oh wait, there are already videos of that!! You might think you can get her out of this on some stupid technicality, but everyone knows she’s a lier. I really can’t wait for Mikes case as she has completely did him wrong!!!!

  33. Alb

    I think the appeal will be interesting and can get more truth (or Laura’s lies) out there. Hopefully they will give several days to review all of the lies. All you have for proof is one HCH test of 102. The one she thought of it was over 4 she was pregnant, but she had to change to over 100k and sent to Clayton and DN. There are so many more lies that were not even in any of the documents. One that I can think of is in late November/ early December she wrote a Medium article claiming she was still pregnant. This is after all the various miscarriages dates. Of course in January she changed the medium article. Just like she has already made changes to the medium article she posted today. Luckily people save everything. If needed Medium also should be able to have all edits she made to all Medium articles for 100 percent proof.

  34. Carla

    “Here, the Court finds Petitioner provided false testimony as to the viability of the pregnancy in all three cases addressed in the procedural history.” …the evidence received at trial to support that finding is..THAT’S RIGHT Absolutely freaking NOTHING!” Can you elaborate? Because it seems clear to everyone but you that the judge is correct. Your client said under oath that she saw specific doctors, when really she just made appointments with them and then cancelled, aka false testimony. She provided an admitted doctored sonogram, and can’t recall how she got the original, and hasn’t provided the original, aka false testimony. She said under oath that the ultrasound that produced the sonogram was taken at PP Mission Viejo, but then during trial claimed it was in LA (on a Sunday when PP is closed) aka false testimony. She admittedly doctored her HCG levels by 1000x, aka false testimony. She said she was 100% pregnant w/ twins at 24 weeks back in the fall, but then claimed miscarriage shortly after. This would mean there would be death certificates. If it happened earlier in the summer, well then she provided false testimony in the fall. I’m sure there is more I’m forgetting, but how is this “Absolutely freaking NOTHING!”???

  35. Aspiring Con Artist

    Congrats on securing extra money for your boat vacation. You’re a brilliant lawyer, and definitely know your niche market. Desperate, rich clients. All these people making fun of you should learn how to turn lemons into lemonade. Congrats Gingras for being a great lawyer. Extremely cringey but a lawyer nonetheless. You’re my role model

  36. Lonni

    You can prove you case extremely easy. Just have Laura go to the planned parenthood under the fake name she used and get the original sonogram that is unaltered. I am completely baffled why this is so difficult to accomplish. My “cult” mind if completely baffled why you do not just do this and put everything to rest. Is this not something that you have even considered? Change everyone’s mind on the decision in the case by doing the easiest thing in the world to do. You claim the easiest and cheapest thing for Clayton to do, is wait for the children to be born and take a paternity test. Ok, well… This seems pretty simple and cheap as well. Another question is why did you not just obtain this original before the trial. it would have answered most every question that anyone has.

  37. Erin

    Sit down!!!
    Holyyyyy F$&K !!!!
    You are almost worse than LAURA bro!!!
    are you enjoying your trip with all the money u sucked outta her ??
    CLEARLY you want this to keep going so she pays for another one of your trips lol
    She needs SERIOUS HELP and you as her lawyer should steer her in that direction instead of keeping this going to gain more money in your pocket!
    You claim that Dave Neal and others are doing what they do to “monetize” on their YouTube’s etc
    Yet you are the one benefiting the MOST with money here lmao !!!
    I’d love to know how much money you have made pretending to believe this woman and enabling her twisted behaviour even more!!
    Why didn’t you tell her to have her sonogram from PP in L.A. Ready for trial?? Woulda been case closed lol.
    You know she’s a fkn liar and the sad thing is that YOU ARE AN EVEN BIGGER LIAR !!!
    you purgered yourself in court too when you said you’d have no internet in your vacation when all you have been doing your entire trip is flapping off on the internet lol
    You are beyond EMBARASSING !!!
    And I truly hope you do keep this going in court so even MORE of Laura’s lies will be revealed and hopefully your ass DISBARRED because you are a complete JOKE of a lawyer and human for that matter!!!
    and no I ain’t in no cult by any means . We have all(including yourself) seen all the evidence and FACTS that are so beyond messed up !! Anybody with a pea sized brain could see right thru all this … pretty sure u can too , u just like the pay check .
    Keep lacking that integrity and good luck , your gonna need it LOFL

    LAURAAAA IF YOU ARE READING THIS GET HELP!!!! Your lawyer doesn’t give a flying F$&K about you ! If he did he’d be telling you the same .


  38. Jane

    Your client just confirmed you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You never thought you could win. We tried to warn you Laura would throw you under the bus eventually, and here it starts.

  39. Immaculate_BJ

    Stop lying to Laura and stringing her along just so you can steal her money, you shyster thief.

    You two lying liars can’t even get your stories straight. You say Laura is shocked by the ruling. Her Medium article says that you were telling her she was going to lose all along. You two both can’t stop lying.

    Only absolute morons like yourself and Chille DeCastro think that attacking the judge is a winning strategy. You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself. Of course, you don’t care about winning, you only care about how much money you can steal from Laura.

    You fail to address Laura’s disastrous performance on the stand, whereby she changed her story (yet again) and claims she had an ultrasound at PP in LA County on Sunday July 2, 2023, when all PPs in LA County are closed. You try to equate the judge making a typo and Laura’s lying on the stand. The judge isn’t under oath. A competent lawyer would know that. Oh, right, you are not competent. Laura either lied or you didn’t provide discovery. Which is it?

    Coaching the witness with hand signals is going to get you disbarred, loser.

  40. Immaculate_BJ

    So now you are coaching your client to lie and change her story yet again. After affirming twice on the stand that she had an ultrasound at PP in LA County on Sunday July 2, 2023, you are having her change the story to June 28. Well, where’s the ultrasound? If you have ultrasound, you win. If you don’t have an ultrasound, you can’t possibly win. So where is it? Produce the ultrasound already! Easy win.

    We all know it doesn’t exist and you continuing this charade is unethical. Letting Laura continue with her delusions and stealing her money is unethical and abusive. Whatever happened to dropping it and moving on?

    1. Anonymous

      I will admit, haven’t heard anyone mention but she did testify during the June 10th trial that she actually went at the end of June….it just gets confusing because when cross examined she says July 2. I would like to buy into what Mr. Gingras is saying on Twitter…..that she did have something scheduled at mission on July 2nd but canceled it since she ended up going the week before in Los Angeles. This seems logical BUT I would then like him to explain her affidavit that states her mom took her on July 2nd, she went in but her mom’s waited in the car, she got the ultrasound and took a picture of it etc. Pretty big details there on that visit……..need clarity on this lie and WHY

      1. David Gingras

        She just got confused about the dates. Exactly like Mata did when she said Laura filed this case on May 20, 2023. We figured it put after looking at hundreds of pages of records and finding that one small mote to Zieman which confirmed Laura went the weekend before July 2 (she was in CA both weekends).

        Mata’s mistake about the filing date doesn’t mean she’s crazy or lying. Same thing with Laura.

  41. As a REAL cult survivor...

    As the survivor an ACTUAL cult, your ham-fisted and incorrect weaponization of ‘cult’ here is repugnant. Go read about the BITE model. I find it laughable you and LO are both shilling that shit, especially considering that LO’s relentless DARVO-ing and continued litigation against her victims to bleed them dry and silence them is right out of the Scientology playbook.

    Please find another metaphor to cling to as the tentpole of your flimsy victim narrative. Laura’s entitled ass has NO IDEA what it is like to be a victim of a cult.

    Shit like this is exactly why people are so galvanized against Laura in this case, because she incessantly makes a mockery of real victims to obfuscate her own abusive behaviors. Fuck ALL the way off.

  42. You're next.

    You’re a terrible lawyer. I actually feel bad for Laura she found someone with no regard for the truth, someone who only sees the money and publicity this case brings without trying to get her to finally STOP. LET IT GO. MOVE ON. She was never pregnant. She needs to learn to hear the word NO. She needs to get a life that doesn’t revolve around punishing men for rejecting her. David, watch out.. you will be next as soon as you do something she doesn’t agree with!

  43. Salamander

    I’m a 71 year-old grandma who has been around long enough to see at least one of almost everything—or, so I thought.
    This beats all I’ve ever seen or heard of. You and your client are treading on very shaky ground in so many ways that it makes me terribly afraid for both of you.
    I feel strongly that this is not going to end well for one or both of you if you continue on this fantasy cruise!

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